Comments on: Book Review: The Rent Is Too Damn High https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/ Liberalizing cities | From the bottom up Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:30:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.1.1 By: Nathanael https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12305 Sat, 19 May 2012 03:21:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12305 You and Yglesias are finding your way back to advocating the Georgist land tax.  🙂

It seems like a good idea at first glance.  The major problem with it is that it’s actually very hard to put a value on land independent of what’s on it; apart from stuff like agricultural fertility and proximity to water, land is mostly valuable for what it’s next to, which is to say buildings.

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By: Nathanael https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12304 Sat, 19 May 2012 03:18:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12304  So would you say “yes, it’s OK for there to be neighborhoods where low-income people can’t afford to live, but it’s not OK to put up walls and gates around them so that low-income people can’t visit or use the amenities?”  (Include in walls and gates, metaphorical ones like not contributing to the city taxes, or privatized parks, etc.)

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By: Nathanael https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12303 Sat, 19 May 2012 03:15:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12303 All of these highly-specific welfare schemes are inferior to a direct employment guarantee at a living wage: basically promising everyone that they can work for the Civilian Conservation Corps (or whatever) for enough to live on, and setting a wage floor that way.

But that is a pretty radical move (even if we came close to doing it during the New Deal). It would mean the only remaining specialized programs needed would be for the disabled and sick, which is a huge group of course, but a National Health Service would reduce that problem substantially as well.

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By: Anonymous https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12175 Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:42:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12175 The cost of noise is “paid” by the people who live in the dense area, so it’s not really an externality. You could argue that it would be an externality if someone was building something high-density in the middle of a mostly low-density area, but not in general.

And pollution is hardly exclusive to high density: traffic jammed freeways are a symptom of low density suburban developments as much as high-density urban areas with good transit. Plus, it’s pretty trivial to turn that externality into a cost that’s paid by the party engaging in it: congestion tolls.

Besides, low density has plenty of its own externalities: increased energy usage leading to increased pollution; the need for wider, straighter and faster roads, carrying more traffic (which aren’t exactly welcomed by the people who live next to them); increased utility costs that are borne by all subscribers; requirements on businesses to provide large amounts of parking space; and so on.

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By: Jonathan May https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12138 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:54:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12138 Paul Joice,
You don’t seem to understand.  The fact that density creates costs that are not reflected in market prices means that we cannot rely on market pricing to produce the optimal density.  Density will be higher than optimal because some of its costs are not being paid by the parties engaging in the transaction that causes it.  It’s exactly the same as pollution, which is also a negative externality of higher density.  That is why we have regulations that limit pollution and that limit density.

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By: Paul Joice https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12136 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:12:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12136 “Negative externalities are costs that are not reflected in market prices.”

That’s not exactly what a negative externality is. It’s when costs are not fully borne by a person making an economic decision. With traffic congestion, the “economic decision” is whether or not to drive/walk/etc. 
With noise, it’s the decision to do whatever activity is directly causing the noise. Density is a factor in how common these decisions are, and thus how large the externalized costs are. However, these external costs do affect the appeal of living in a particular place, and if the place becomes less appealing, the density of housing units should stabilize. So I think Yglesias’s point isn’t exactly nonsense.

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By: Jonathan May https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12134 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:40:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12134 Yglesias writes:

“People worry that a denser neighborhood will have more traffic and more noise. Generally speaking, they’re correct. But all this means is that allowing higher density will be a self-limiting process. Balancing the different costs and benefits involved in denser building is, after all, precisely the sort of thing that relatively free markets are good at.”

But this is nonsense.  Traffic (congestion) and noise are examples of negative externalities of higher density.  Negative externalities are costs that are not reflected in market prices.  That is why free markets are not good at producing optimal density.  Either these costs must be internalized through a “density tax” of somesuch, or density must be limited through regulation to prevent external costs from becoming excessive.

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By: Emily Washington https://marketurbanism.com/2012/03/12/book-review-the-rent-is-too-damn-high/#comment-12122 Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:35:00 +0000 http://www.marketurbanism.com/?p=3105#comment-12122 To answer your first question, yes I do think it’s acceptable that there are neighborhoods where not everyone can afford to live. Living in DC, I am happy to live near neighborhoods where I will never be able to afford to live because I still get to enjoy the amenities that these neighborhoods offer. Being childless, I don’t pay as much attention to DC public schools as perhaps I should, but I’m not sure the neighborhood you describe with the best of all amenities exists at any income level. Obviously, though, I think that DC housing access could be much improved for people of all income levels in a freer land use market. 

We’re in agreement that inclusionary zoning is a much better avenue for providing low-income housing than project-based housing. And I don’t have any problems with the stated goals of inclusionary zoning, but I think that IZ supporters are too often ignoring its unseen consequences. Again, to use the DC example because that’s what I’m most familiar with, here 5% of new housing developments with 10 or more units or newly renovated housing must be affordable for people 50% of the AMI and an additional 5% for people making 80% of the AMI. (I’m pretty sure these figures are still accurate — someone please correct me if these are wrong.) By requiring developers to provide below-market-rate housing, this policy drives up the price of market-rate housing and also reduces the supply of new housing from what it otherwise would be. Who does this policy hurt most? Anyone making less than 50% of the AMI and those making up to 80% or just over who are not able to secure price-controlled units.

Also, from a practical standpoint I think it’s silly that IZ typically applies to new or newly renovated properties. In most cases, these would be a neighborhoods’ most expensive housing units in a free market, so why are we seeking to make them go for the lowest prices? Vouchers would give us more bang for the buck if the goal is providing access to desirable neighborhoods. 

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