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	<title>Comments on: Urban[ism] Legend: Zoning Creates Density</title>
	<atom:link href="http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/</link>
	<description>Urbanism for Capitalists / Capitalism for Urbanists</description>
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		<title>By: Paris Changes the Future of Urban Form &#124; elmplus blog</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-9281</link>
		<dc:creator>Paris Changes the Future of Urban Form &#124; elmplus blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-9281</guid>
		<description>[...] forces should determine how density is distributed.  When you consider the following graph from a post of his on zoning, it is hard to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] forces should determine how density is distributed.  When you consider the following graph from a post of his on zoning, it is hard to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Market Urbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-1714</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Urbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-1714</guid>
		<description>Mathieu,
I just checked out your blog for the first time.  It seems fascinating!!  I will spend some time this weekend reading it more thoroughly, but I expect to find some similarities between your work and the &quot;emergent order&quot; of the market place.  I&#039;m really excited about what I may learn.
Also, I added a link to the blogroll....
Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mathieu,<br />
I just checked out your blog for the first time.  It seems fascinating!!  I will spend some time this weekend reading it more thoroughly, but I expect to find some similarities between your work and the &#8220;emergent order&#8221; of the market place.  I&#8217;m really excited about what I may learn.<br />
Also, I added a link to the blogroll&#8230;.<br />
Adam</p>
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		<title>By: MarketUrbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-8505</link>
		<dc:creator>MarketUrbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-8505</guid>
		<description>Mathieu,
I just checked out your blog for the first time.  It seems fascinating!!  I will spend some time this weekend reading it more thoroughly, but I expect to find some similarities between your work and the &quot;emergent order&quot; of the market place.  I&#039;m really excited about what I may learn.
Also, I added a link to the blogroll....
Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mathieu,<br />
I just checked out your blog for the first time.  It seems fascinating!!  I will spend some time this weekend reading it more thoroughly, but I expect to find some similarities between your work and the &#8220;emergent order&#8221; of the market place.  I&#8217;m really excited about what I may learn.<br />
Also, I added a link to the blogroll&#8230;.<br />
Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Market Urbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-1708</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Urbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-1708</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mathieu!
Sorry for the slow response - I was visiting Portland, getting back to the grind, and am just getting re-situated.

I&#039;m hoping to post about France&#039;s recent liberalization of zoning restrictions, although I haven&#039;t yet familiarized myself with the legislation and restrictions.  I also want to touch on how it may effect the character of Paris&#039; urban streets.

I like what you have to say on centralization and scale of organization, and would certainly hope to write on that and encourage you to.

Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mathieu!<br />
Sorry for the slow response &#8211; I was visiting Portland, getting back to the grind, and am just getting re-situated.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping to post about France&#8217;s recent liberalization of zoning restrictions, although I haven&#8217;t yet familiarized myself with the legislation and restrictions.  I also want to touch on how it may effect the character of Paris&#8217; urban streets.</p>
<p>I like what you have to say on centralization and scale of organization, and would certainly hope to write on that and encourage you to.</p>
<p>Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MarketUrbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-8504</link>
		<dc:creator>MarketUrbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-8504</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mathieu!
Sorry for the slow response - I was visiting Portland, getting back to the grind, and am just getting re-situated.

I&#039;m hoping to post about France&#039;s recent liberalization of zoning restrictions, although I haven&#039;t yet familiarized myself with the legislation and restrictions.  I also want to touch on how it may effect the character of Paris&#039; urban streets.

I like what you have to say on centralization and scale of organization, and would certainly hope to write on that and encourage you to.

Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mathieu!<br />
Sorry for the slow response &#8211; I was visiting Portland, getting back to the grind, and am just getting re-situated.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping to post about France&#8217;s recent liberalization of zoning restrictions, although I haven&#8217;t yet familiarized myself with the legislation and restrictions.  I also want to touch on how it may effect the character of Paris&#8217; urban streets.</p>
<p>I like what you have to say on centralization and scale of organization, and would certainly hope to write on that and encourage you to.</p>
<p>Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mathieu Helie</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathieu Helie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-1531</guid>
		<description>Here in Paris the debate over density is just as intense. The regional plan will be approved today that is supposed to increase density and provide a solution to the &quot;housing crisis&quot; by freeing up more land for development. That is however not the reason there is a housing crisis in the first place. Zoning codes in France are extremely decentralized. Aside from Paris, which has a population of 2 million, the next biggest city in the region has only a hundred thousand people, and then it rapidly declines into hundreds of cities with a few thousand inhabitants pestering the mayor. If any of these cities were to raise zoning density one little percent, the result would be all the demand for the metropolitan area channeling through that city, a major population migration, and the mayor thrown out of office next election. So none of the cities, individually, will dare raise densities.

What you say about the market applies to a whole metropolitan area, and it is true that if zoning density was raised across the entire metropolitan area simultaneously, the unmet demand would be distributed evenly and gradually across it. But that is not possible so long as there is decentralization. Whoever moves first loses.

I applaud your efforts to reconcile the market with urbanism. My own personal perspective is that there is an enormous amount of confusion as to the place of government in cities. Cities are not governments but public enterprises, no different than the post office or the electric utility. As they get bigger, they become more and more capitalist, meaning by this that they must make increasingly capital-intensive investments. When you have a city like Paris that is made up of thousands of little enterprises (cooperative or communist in organization), it is impossible to solve problems at the scale of the whole city.

I&#039;m not ready to write an article about this yet, but maybe you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Paris the debate over density is just as intense. The regional plan will be approved today that is supposed to increase density and provide a solution to the &#8220;housing crisis&#8221; by freeing up more land for development. That is however not the reason there is a housing crisis in the first place. Zoning codes in France are extremely decentralized. Aside from Paris, which has a population of 2 million, the next biggest city in the region has only a hundred thousand people, and then it rapidly declines into hundreds of cities with a few thousand inhabitants pestering the mayor. If any of these cities were to raise zoning density one little percent, the result would be all the demand for the metropolitan area channeling through that city, a major population migration, and the mayor thrown out of office next election. So none of the cities, individually, will dare raise densities.</p>
<p>What you say about the market applies to a whole metropolitan area, and it is true that if zoning density was raised across the entire metropolitan area simultaneously, the unmet demand would be distributed evenly and gradually across it. But that is not possible so long as there is decentralization. Whoever moves first loses.</p>
<p>I applaud your efforts to reconcile the market with urbanism. My own personal perspective is that there is an enormous amount of confusion as to the place of government in cities. Cities are not governments but public enterprises, no different than the post office or the electric utility. As they get bigger, they become more and more capitalist, meaning by this that they must make increasingly capital-intensive investments. When you have a city like Paris that is made up of thousands of little enterprises (cooperative or communist in organization), it is impossible to solve problems at the scale of the whole city.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not ready to write an article about this yet, but maybe you can.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathieu Helie</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-8503</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathieu Helie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-8503</guid>
		<description>Here in Paris the debate over density is just as intense. The regional plan will be approved today that is supposed to increase density and provide a solution to the &quot;housing crisis&quot; by freeing up more land for development. That is however not the reason there is a housing crisis in the first place. Zoning codes in France are extremely decentralized. Aside from Paris, which has a population of 2 million, the next biggest city in the region has only a hundred thousand people, and then it rapidly declines into hundreds of cities with a few thousand inhabitants pestering the mayor. If any of these cities were to raise zoning density one little percent, the result would be all the demand for the metropolitan area channeling through that city, a major population migration, and the mayor thrown out of office next election. So none of the cities, individually, will dare raise densities.

What you say about the market applies to a whole metropolitan area, and it is true that if zoning density was raised across the entire metropolitan area simultaneously, the unmet demand would be distributed evenly and gradually across it. But that is not possible so long as there is decentralization. Whoever moves first loses.

I applaud your efforts to reconcile the market with urbanism. My own personal perspective is that there is an enormous amount of confusion as to the place of government in cities. Cities are not governments but public enterprises, no different than the post office or the electric utility. As they get bigger, they become more and more capitalist, meaning by this that they must make increasingly capital-intensive investments. When you have a city like Paris that is made up of thousands of little enterprises (cooperative or communist in organization), it is impossible to solve problems at the scale of the whole city.

I&#039;m not ready to write an article about this yet, but maybe you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Paris the debate over density is just as intense. The regional plan will be approved today that is supposed to increase density and provide a solution to the &#8220;housing crisis&#8221; by freeing up more land for development. That is however not the reason there is a housing crisis in the first place. Zoning codes in France are extremely decentralized. Aside from Paris, which has a population of 2 million, the next biggest city in the region has only a hundred thousand people, and then it rapidly declines into hundreds of cities with a few thousand inhabitants pestering the mayor. If any of these cities were to raise zoning density one little percent, the result would be all the demand for the metropolitan area channeling through that city, a major population migration, and the mayor thrown out of office next election. So none of the cities, individually, will dare raise densities.</p>
<p>What you say about the market applies to a whole metropolitan area, and it is true that if zoning density was raised across the entire metropolitan area simultaneously, the unmet demand would be distributed evenly and gradually across it. But that is not possible so long as there is decentralization. Whoever moves first loses.</p>
<p>I applaud your efforts to reconcile the market with urbanism. My own personal perspective is that there is an enormous amount of confusion as to the place of government in cities. Cities are not governments but public enterprises, no different than the post office or the electric utility. As they get bigger, they become more and more capitalist, meaning by this that they must make increasingly capital-intensive investments. When you have a city like Paris that is made up of thousands of little enterprises (cooperative or communist in organization), it is impossible to solve problems at the scale of the whole city.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not ready to write an article about this yet, but maybe you can.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Hemric</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/28/urbanism-legend-zoning-creates-density/#comment-1276</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Hemric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=115#comment-1276</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the positive feedback!  I agree with most of what you say, and would also add that the relatively few people who feel they benefit from highly restrictive zoning are people who wield a great deal of power because they vote; while the much, much greater number of people who would benefit from less restrictive zoning (e.g., high density zoning) are people who don&#039;t vote -- as they are in the future and don&#039;t &quot;exist&quot; yet!

By the way, I think you might enjoy reading my comments to a thread on the subject of &quot;high&quot; density zoning on a webblog called, &quot;2Blowhards.&quot;  (The most active proprietor of the weblog, &quot;Michael Blowhard.&quot; is somewhat market oriented and might enjoy being introduced to your weblog -- so you might want to introduce yourself and your blog.)  The thread is called &quot;Urban Squeezing&quot; and is from Feb. 19, 2008.  If the following link doesn&#039;t work, you can find it using the blog&#039;s search feature, by typing in &quot;zoning.&quot;  

I say, Michael &quot;Blowhard&quot; is &quot;somewhat&quot; market oriented because he seems to have succumbed to some of the planning rhetoric of the people I call &quot;New [Sub-]Urbanists.&quot;  There were two or three recent (in August) threads on New [Sub-]Urbanism (and what I feel are the strong anti-market tendencies of some prominent New [Sub-]Urbanists (e.g., Christopher Alexander, Leon Krier, Roger Scruton and Nikos Salingaros).

1) Link to 2/19/08 thread, &quot;Urban Squeezing&quot;:

http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/02/urban_squeezing_1.html


2) Link to 8/15/08 thread, &quot; &#039;Burb Thoughts, Info, Questions&quot;:

http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/burb_thoughts_i.html


3) Link to 8/21/08 thread, &quot;The Alexander Effect&quot;:

http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/the_alexander_e.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the positive feedback!  I agree with most of what you say, and would also add that the relatively few people who feel they benefit from highly restrictive zoning are people who wield a great deal of power because they vote; while the much, much greater number of people who would benefit from less restrictive zoning (e.g., high density zoning) are people who don&#8217;t vote &#8212; as they are in the future and don&#8217;t &#8220;exist&#8221; yet!</p>
<p>By the way, I think you might enjoy reading my comments to a thread on the subject of &#8220;high&#8221; density zoning on a webblog called, &#8220;2Blowhards.&#8221;  (The most active proprietor of the weblog, &#8220;Michael Blowhard.&#8221; is somewhat market oriented and might enjoy being introduced to your weblog &#8212; so you might want to introduce yourself and your blog.)  The thread is called &#8220;Urban Squeezing&#8221; and is from Feb. 19, 2008.  If the following link doesn&#8217;t work, you can find it using the blog&#8217;s search feature, by typing in &#8220;zoning.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I say, Michael &#8220;Blowhard&#8221; is &#8220;somewhat&#8221; market oriented because he seems to have succumbed to some of the planning rhetoric of the people I call &#8220;New [Sub-]Urbanists.&#8221;  There were two or three recent (in August) threads on New [Sub-]Urbanism (and what I feel are the strong anti-market tendencies of some prominent New [Sub-]Urbanists (e.g., Christopher Alexander, Leon Krier, Roger Scruton and Nikos Salingaros).</p>
<p>1) Link to 2/19/08 thread, &#8220;Urban Squeezing&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/02/urban_squeezing_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/02/urban_squeezing_1.html</a></p>
<p>2) Link to 8/15/08 thread, &#8221; &#8216;Burb Thoughts, Info, Questions&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/burb_thoughts_i.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/burb_thoughts_i.html</a></p>
<p>3) Link to 8/21/08 thread, &#8220;The Alexander Effect&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/the_alexander_e.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/08/the_alexander_e.html</a></p>
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