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	<title>Comments on: Free Market Impostors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/</link>
	<description>Urbanism for Capitalists / Capitalism for Urbanists</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew Dawson</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-6550</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-6550</guid>
		<description>Randall O&#039;Toole is a sick demented evil bastard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randall O&#39;Toole is a sick demented evil bastard!</p>
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		<title>By: Abraham M.</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-6335</link>
		<dc:creator>Abraham M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-6335</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this post. I personally admire the libertarian viewpoint , but on transit issues, I always find it weird that they would subscribe to untenable car-centric polices in the name of being &quot;free market&quot;. glad to see someone else sees it this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post. I personally admire the libertarian viewpoint , but on transit issues, I always find it weird that they would subscribe to untenable car-centric polices in the name of being &#8220;free market&#8221;. glad to see someone else sees it this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Market Urbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Urbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-799</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Sameer,

Since you are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&amp;s=s48marketurbanism&amp;v=36&amp;r=9&amp;vlr=11&amp;pg=1&amp;d=719&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;visiting the site from New York City&lt;/a&gt; and probably have an idea of how many people use transit, I&#039;ll assume you are being sarcastic in saying, &quot;the fact that no one ever uses transit&quot;.

But, to clarify for the readers, the cost per trip differential is almost never higher than cost per mile since transit users tend to commute from closer distances than driving commuters.  Since the cost per mile has a higher denominator, junk economists like to distort the facts using that metric as opposed to the more informative cost per trip metric.

While it may be &lt;i&gt;more expensive to &lt;strong&gt;move&lt;/strong&gt; five people in a train than it is to move one person in a car&lt;/i&gt; (I&#039;ll assume that is a fact), one must consider all costs (such as land, capital, and other opportunity costs) before making a conclusion.  There&#039;s much more to it than just &lt;strong&gt;moving&lt;/strong&gt; people.

Being that you are in New York, would you consider aquiring all the buildings along Broadway plus the additional land needed to build ramps,etc on top of the construction costs of a major highway a feasible economic alternative to the underground subway lines that run under it?  This may be an extreme example, but not as extreme as O&#039;Toole&#039;s example that completely neglects land costs and is only relevent in undeveloped areas.

By no means am I arguing that transit is superior or that roads are inherently bad.  My main point is that both systems are highly socialist and completely distort land use patterns.  Huge subsidies to &lt;strong&gt;both&lt;/strong&gt; systems divert resources from other productive activities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Sameer,</p>
<p>Since you are <a href="http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&#038;s=s48marketurbanism&#038;v=36&#038;r=9&#038;vlr=11&#038;pg=1&#038;d=719" rel="nofollow">visiting the site from New York City</a> and probably have an idea of how many people use transit, I&#8217;ll assume you are being sarcastic in saying, &#8220;the fact that no one ever uses transit&#8221;.</p>
<p>But, to clarify for the readers, the cost per trip differential is almost never higher than cost per mile since transit users tend to commute from closer distances than driving commuters.  Since the cost per mile has a higher denominator, junk economists like to distort the facts using that metric as opposed to the more informative cost per trip metric.</p>
<p>While it may be <i>more expensive to <strong>move</strong> five people in a train than it is to move one person in a car</i> (I&#8217;ll assume that is a fact), one must consider all costs (such as land, capital, and other opportunity costs) before making a conclusion.  There&#8217;s much more to it than just <strong>moving</strong> people.</p>
<p>Being that you are in New York, would you consider aquiring all the buildings along Broadway plus the additional land needed to build ramps,etc on top of the construction costs of a major highway a feasible economic alternative to the underground subway lines that run under it?  This may be an extreme example, but not as extreme as O&#8217;Toole&#8217;s example that completely neglects land costs and is only relevent in undeveloped areas.</p>
<p>By no means am I arguing that transit is superior or that roads are inherently bad.  My main point is that both systems are highly socialist and completely distort land use patterns.  Huge subsidies to <strong>both</strong> systems divert resources from other productive activities.</p>
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		<title>By: Sameer Parekh</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>Sameer Parekh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-798</guid>
		<description>When you consider the fact that NO ONE EVER USES TRANSIT, then the cost/trip differential is probably even higher than the cost/mile. Sure, if you use cost/max-capacity or cost/projected-ridership, maybe transit comes out cheaper, but in that case you are using pie-in-the-sky numbers. It is more expensive to move five people in a train than it is to move one person in a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you consider the fact that NO ONE EVER USES TRANSIT, then the cost/trip differential is probably even higher than the cost/mile. Sure, if you use cost/max-capacity or cost/projected-ridership, maybe transit comes out cheaper, but in that case you are using pie-in-the-sky numbers. It is more expensive to move five people in a train than it is to move one person in a car.</p>
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		<title>By: Reason.org&#8217;s Staley Not in Favor of Property Rights if&#8230; &#124; Market Urbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-794</link>
		<dc:creator>Reason.org&#8217;s Staley Not in Favor of Property Rights if&#8230; &#124; Market Urbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-794</guid>
		<description>[...] Staley to the list of Free-Market Impostors.   These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Staley to the list of Free-Market Impostors.   These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Nelson</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Ha! Some of my best friends are trains...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Some of my best friends are trains&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Market Urbanism</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Urbanism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-168</guid>
		<description>The weird thing is he claims to be a train enthusiast, so I guess it&#039;s not a phobia.  Maybe that&#039;s his way of making himself sound credible.  
&quot;I love trains, but when I researched them I realized... ...they suck.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The weird thing is he claims to be a train enthusiast, so I guess it&#8217;s not a phobia.  Maybe that&#8217;s his way of making himself sound credible.<br />
&#8220;I love trains, but when I researched them I realized&#8230; &#8230;they suck.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Nelson</title>
		<link>http://marketurbanism.com/2008/06/06/free-market-impostors/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marketurbanism.com/?p=86#comment-167</guid>
		<description>1. If you&#039;re a capitalist who seeks to to use the government to obtain your preferred outcome, then you&#039;re no capitalist.

2. I long ago stopped reading anything written by one-trick-pony Randall O&#039;Toole. It looks like he hasn&#039;t changed. (I wonder if his mass-transit phobia extends to airplanes and elevators. Or at least elevators in government buildings...)

3. To support socialized highways over socialized transit is like preferring socialized hi-rise public housing over socialized sprawling public housing. I&#039;m sure that arguments could be made for/against each, but it is has nothing to do with reducing the detrimental effects of government. Instead, that discussion is best left for the expertise of insulated planners and other &quot;experts&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. If you&#8217;re a capitalist who seeks to to use the government to obtain your preferred outcome, then you&#8217;re no capitalist.</p>
<p>2. I long ago stopped reading anything written by one-trick-pony Randall O&#8217;Toole. It looks like he hasn&#8217;t changed. (I wonder if his mass-transit phobia extends to airplanes and elevators. Or at least elevators in government buildings&#8230;)</p>
<p>3. To support socialized highways over socialized transit is like preferring socialized hi-rise public housing over socialized sprawling public housing. I&#8217;m sure that arguments could be made for/against each, but it is has nothing to do with reducing the detrimental effects of government. Instead, that discussion is best left for the expertise of insulated planners and other &#8220;experts&#8221;.</p>
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